Call for suspension of Matt Stannard


#1

Matt has violated a major tenant by post a private message in a public forum for the sole purpose of public smear. He should be suspended for a period of time for such an offense. Private messages are just that…PRIVATE. That compounded with his consistant public attacks on me on many levels has taken what was once a very good site for discourse into the Matt Standard way of thinking.com. I am not one for censorship as it is a tenant of our society but in our society we also have rules and those rules have punishments that are handed out when they have been broken. This case should be no exception.

V/R
Ken


#2

Ev for the complaint:

Yesterday, 10:45 AM
stannard67
Registered User Join Date: March 25th, 2003
Location: Laramie, WY
Posts: 2,852

Ken’s private message to me


Ken sent me the following private message:

Quote:
You are an ass matt and have run alot of good people from this site. You post in the Iraq thread was just bullshit and it was an attack. You know what I am sorry we have different views but you consistantly make it personal (sign of a weak person) and your child like actions of resulted in alot ofgood people leaving tjhis site. Too bad you fat ass wind bag self had to ruin what was once a good place.

So fuck off Matt


“How far off is the day when you will wake up and ask your partner for a kiss, only to be told that the person across the hall is willing to pay nine dollars for one?” ~Bill Martin


#3

Ken,

I can understand how you’re upset about Matt posting a PM in a public forum, but there really is no rule barring people from posting their own PM’s. If he had posted a PM exchange between two other members on this forum, without their consent, then that would definitely have crossed a serious line. But as it stands, its an exchange between you two, and either of you could choose to post it. It might be uncalled for, but its not violating any major rules.

There really is no precedent for anyone being suspended or banned from Net-Benefits as far as I am aware (other than bots / spammers). And I don’t see this situation changing it.

I just don’t believe moderators should be involved in the middle of arguments between members. I would recommend to both of you to communicate less, or differently, with one another. Having a mod step in would do little to solve the situation and would set a bad precedent.

Hajeer


#4

Hajeer,
With all due respect it was a private message not a public one. He violated the confidentiality of the message by making it public in an attemot to run me off the site (as he has done to others). I go out of my way not to directly engage him yet he makes direct attacks on me at will. Sounds kind of like a bully (hmmmm there are laws for that). His behavior is no better than the woman from MO being tried in CA for attacking someone verbally online (granted I am not suicidal though).
Point is there needs to be a precedant here. This type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. Matt has been allowed to run this site rupshod for way to long. He has crossed the line and a punishment should follow. Or is he above the law or any stanndard of basic courtesy or dignity? Or has this site really gotten that bad?


#5

I am pretty much with Hajeer on this one.

Ken, what Matt did was likely in bad taste, but as far as I know, there is no rule against what he did, so I’m not sure what codified expectation of privacy exists. I also think that neither mine nor Hajeer’s moderating platforms would allow for a unilateral suspension of Matt for such an action on his part. I am open to locking the thread (since I think some of its content would constitute flaming per my own mod platform), but that is about as far as I will go.

As far as your allegation of Matt bullying you, I am not sure what you are specifically referring to by “direct attacks” on you, so I can’t speak to that.


#6

From the Mod policy:
The intent is not to freeze or silence speech, but to maintain a sense of order out of anarchy.

Matt has run all over the mods and this site. There may not be any rules of decency but that does not mean that there should not be. But when a message is labeled as a Private message I think that its pretty obvious that its Private and not public.
We haven’t had to broach this topic before because it hasn’t happened before. Just because its a first does not mean we should ignore it. There need to be some basic rules of decency on this site. He should be banned for a period of time and then allowed to return for his abusive behavior.
And if you have not seen the litany of attacks he has made on me almost every time I post…I am sorry but they are out there.

V/R
Ken


#7

[QUOTE=army CPT;207500]Hajeer,
With all due respect it was a private message not a public one. He violated the confidentiality of the message by making it public in an attemot to run me off the site (as he has done to others). I go out of my way not to directly engage him yet he makes direct attacks on me at will. Sounds kind of like a bully (hmmmm there are laws for that). His behavior is no better than the woman from MO being tried in CA for attacking someone verbally online (granted I am not suicidal though).
Point is there needs to be a precedant here. This type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. Matt has been allowed to run this site rupshod for way to long. He has crossed the line and a punishment should follow. Or is he above the law or any stanndard of basic courtesy or dignity? Or has this site really gotten that bad?[/QUOTE]
Ken,

I’ve taken my time and thought this over in detail, but I really can’t see myself intervening. I’ll address the reasons why:
[list=1][*]Running you off the site: There are a lot of people on N-B that don’t get along with one another. I can think of many examples since 03 (though I don’t want to name names), several of which include people who no longer post. People’s decisions for leaving NB are their own. If you don’t enjoy communicating with Matt, there are a lot of other posters you can communicate with. I believe we used to have an ignore feature before the switch to the new board. Maybe we could reinstate that, we’d have to talk to Pat.

[*]Bullying: This is a really arbitrary line to draw. Suffice to say if bullying was the factor, TheJuiceBox (Kymball) would rank higher than Stannard. Honestly, I credit both you and Matt with being strong enough to not be bullied by one another, just enormously annoyed. And to be fair, you hit back at Matt also. I don’t want to get into a “which insult was come-back to what other insult” discussion, just to point out that you’re both men capable of standing up for yourselves. (If we were to start banning people for “bullying” or obscenity, suffice to say a good 1/3 of the board could be banned overnight.)

[*]Confidentiality of the Message: I’ve thought about this in detail, and its really the only scenario where I can imagine a mod intervention (such as posting the contents of a private communication without the parties’ consent).

Simply, a Private Message is nothing more than you entrusting information to another person. It does not legally or implicitly bind them to never mention it again. The only private portion of the PM is that only you two are privy to the information, unless one chooses to publicize it (no one else can publicize or access it).

I can think of many examples where communications that occurred privately via Net-Benefits (and even AIM or FaceBook) where discussed in person with people who were not intended recipients of the message. Should those people be suspended/banned? The line is arbitrary to draw here.

To me, a PM is no different than a telephone call. If you phoned Matt, only you, Matt, and the Department of Homeland Security would be allowed to access it, but either of you could discuss the contents afterwards.

There are many cases of people who have publicized voicemails left on their answering machines, showcased letters / notes delivered to them to others, or posted messages delivered via online media for all to see. Sending someone a message is granting them a right of ownership to that message. It is not copyrighted, nor is it protected by privacy law.

A PM is no different than any of those examples. It is simply a forum’s equivalent of those communication functionalities. The fact that it is called a Private Message doesn’t change its role.[/list]
For us to intervene would set a really bad precedent here. Honestly, Ken, you should just stop communicating with Matt if it upsets you.

-Hajeer


#8

Hajeer,
This isn’t just about me V Matt. Look at the FAQ and you will see there are no guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not on these boards. Thank you for having the faith in me to say I am strong enough to take the hits. To be fair I have landed a few but I dole out a lot less than I take. His behavior sets an even more dangerous precedent for this site. Matt does what he wants when he wants on this site and if you don’t like it to bad.
The continued ignorance is bliss attitude toward this behavior is bad and needs to be addressed. If there is no fear of punishment then we are all free to do as we please regardless of the results of our actions. I would be held to that same standard. I am not advocating that only Matt be held to it but that ALL of us should be. Matt has messaged me in the past and I just delete and move on and do not publicly publish what was sent to me in the form of a private conveyance.
Maybe we should just let Matt run the site.


#9

Ken–

If you want to propose a rule change to net-bens about publicly posting PMs, please feel free to do so. It is a discussion that is probably worth having. But I’m not going to get involved in your dispute with Matt by unilaterally suspending him.


#10

never mind…new thread about to go up in reality. Matt will do what he wants and we will do nothing. I am sorry but if I had done it all hell would have broken loose. But it is what it is and it is the reason for the new thread.